Comments on: Review: The God’s Aren’t Angry http://mudpuppy.wordpress.com/2007/12/03/review-the-gods-arent-angry/ Sun, 20 Jul 2008 08:57:20 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=MU By: pomonapost http://mudpuppy.wordpress.com/2007/12/03/review-the-gods-arent-angry/#comment-16424 pomonapost Fri, 07 Dec 2007 03:16:31 +0000 http://mudpuppy.wordpress.com/2007/12/03/review-the-gods-arent-angry/#comment-16424 Also, if I were a nonbeliever I think the question I would have (and had) was why did God have his son die? Why wouldn't he just forgive? To understand the cross and why Jesus had to die, you have to understand His wrath for sin, but love for man. His justice & His grace. Understand as much as you can I guess, I still haven't got it all figured out ;) Also, if I were a nonbeliever I think the question I would have (and had) was why did God have his son die? Why wouldn’t he just forgive? To understand the cross and why Jesus had to die, you have to understand His wrath for sin, but love for man. His justice & His grace. Understand as much as you can I guess, I still haven’t got it all figured out ;)

]]> By: pomonapost http://mudpuppy.wordpress.com/2007/12/03/review-the-gods-arent-angry/#comment-16423 pomonapost Fri, 07 Dec 2007 03:10:59 +0000 http://mudpuppy.wordpress.com/2007/12/03/review-the-gods-arent-angry/#comment-16423 Thanks Robert. That's the main question I've had b/c I hate to point someone toward a person before I know their beliefs. I agree Hell wasn't the main emphasis, but if eternity is eternal, then it is more a major factor of our faith, but doesn't in any way diminish what we do here and now. It's a motivating factor as we are told several times to look forward to Christ's return & Colossians 3 says "3For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. 4When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory." We will have an amazing life beyond our comprehension in eternity. So, we should look forward to that. I don't use Hell much, but it's something a person at a point needs to understand and believe in if they're going to understand truth. All truth is God's truth. If they're going to know the life that Jesus brings when they surrender to him, they need to know that life isn't just here and now, but goes for eternity. That's the point of the resurrection to know Jesus conquered death. I know the Hellfire and brimstone camp is missing the days where that was THE motivator. But some are dodging all together, which I believe is wrong too. After all I'd heard from Rob I began to develop questions. And there were somethings I began to ask by what I hadn't heard, but didn't want to draw false assumptions. I believe the tone of scripture is the tone we should have. It was very balanced and through time some things have been emphasized more than others. I think you're reacting to me based on others, but that's understandable. I do it too. I don't blog much on religious stuff b/c it's so full of reaction and assumption that go into looking at what a person has said in one small way and we categorize them quickly. Thanks again. Thanks Robert. That’s the main question I’ve had b/c I hate to point someone toward a person before I know their beliefs. I agree Hell wasn’t the main emphasis, but if eternity is eternal, then it is more a major factor of our faith, but doesn’t in any way diminish what we do here and now. It’s a motivating factor as we are told several times to look forward to Christ’s return & Colossians 3 says “3For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. 4When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.” We will have an amazing life beyond our comprehension in eternity. So, we should look forward to that.

I don’t use Hell much, but it’s something a person at a point needs to understand and believe in if they’re going to understand truth. All truth is God’s truth. If they’re going to know the life that Jesus brings when they surrender to him, they need to know that life isn’t just here and now, but goes for eternity. That’s the point of the resurrection to know Jesus conquered death. I know the Hellfire and brimstone camp is missing the days where that was THE motivator. But some are dodging all together, which I believe is wrong too.

After all I’d heard from Rob I began to develop questions. And there were somethings I began to ask by what I hadn’t heard, but didn’t want to draw false assumptions.

I believe the tone of scripture is the tone we should have. It was very balanced and through time some things have been emphasized more than others. I think you’re reacting to me based on others, but that’s understandable. I do it too.

I don’t blog much on religious stuff b/c it’s so full of reaction and assumption that go into looking at what a person has said in one small way and we categorize them quickly. Thanks again.

]]> By: Robert Chapman http://mudpuppy.wordpress.com/2007/12/03/review-the-gods-arent-angry/#comment-16413 Robert Chapman Thu, 06 Dec 2007 22:04:04 +0000 http://mudpuppy.wordpress.com/2007/12/03/review-the-gods-arent-angry/#comment-16413 Sorry I haven't been able to reply back from earlier. Yes Rob does believe in hell he talked about it in several podcasts a while back. I don't have copies but the guy I went with to hear him speak has them on his ipod. I understand because the question of hell came up for me too. He spends a great deal of time dealing with the idea both in scripture and culturally. He talks a great deal about the three words used in scripture to refer to what we translate as hell and tries from what I heard in the podcast to effectively deal with their use in the context. I think if you talked to Rob Bell though from the interviews I've read you would find someone as perplexed as I am at the strong feelings people have about hell. It's not the sense that we think hell is not important in terms of salvation but more how excited people seem to be over it. I don't want to out right judge anyone's intentions but it almost comes across in some of these discussions like people really like it that people go to hell. I'm sorry if my earlier post came off a little charged it's just that I have a google alert set for Rob Bell so I get to read all of these blogs each day and more and more it scares me how much people enjoy that sinners go to hell. It seems like people almost need that to justify their lifestyle. I'm sorry but if you need hell to motivate you to be a follower of Christ then you've got something way out of whack. Besides I think that people have been influenced way more by greek culture and american media about hell than the bible. You know it fascinates me how little the concept of an afterlife had really developed for the jews yet when Jesus came to them it wasn't his main point or even close to it to straighten out. In light of that we as Christians have made hell an agenda that I don't think Jesus ever intended. It's kind of like what Dallas Willard said we've made the gospel so much about sin management that we forgot that Jesus came to transform people into disciples. Sorry I haven’t been able to reply back from earlier. Yes Rob does believe in hell he talked about it in several podcasts a while back. I don’t have copies but the guy I went with to hear him speak has them on his ipod. I understand because the question of hell came up for me too. He spends a great deal of time dealing with the idea both in scripture and culturally. He talks a great deal about the three words used in scripture to refer to what we translate as hell and tries from what I heard in the podcast to effectively deal with their use in the context. I think if you talked to Rob Bell though from the interviews I’ve read you would find someone as perplexed as I am at the strong feelings people have about hell. It’s not the sense that we think hell is not important in terms of salvation but more how excited people seem to be over it. I don’t want to out right judge anyone’s intentions but it almost comes across in some of these discussions like people really like it that people go to hell. I’m sorry if my earlier post came off a little charged it’s just that I have a google alert set for Rob Bell so I get to read all of these blogs each day and more and more it scares me how much people enjoy that sinners go to hell. It seems like people almost need that to justify their lifestyle. I’m sorry but if you need hell to motivate you to be a follower of Christ then you’ve got something way out of whack. Besides I think that people have been influenced way more by greek culture and american media about hell than the bible. You know it fascinates me how little the concept of an afterlife had really developed for the jews yet when Jesus came to them it wasn’t his main point or even close to it to straighten out. In light of that we as Christians have made hell an agenda that I don’t think Jesus ever intended. It’s kind of like what Dallas Willard said we’ve made the gospel so much about sin management that we forgot that Jesus came to transform people into disciples.

]]> By: pomonapost http://mudpuppy.wordpress.com/2007/12/03/review-the-gods-arent-angry/#comment-16330 pomonapost Wed, 05 Dec 2007 04:21:21 +0000 http://mudpuppy.wordpress.com/2007/12/03/review-the-gods-arent-angry/#comment-16330 I think the fact remains, does anyone know if Rob Bell does or does not believe in Hell? I haven't made up my mind about him and that's what I'd really like to know b/c I know what Jesus believed. That doesn't mean it has to be the focus or first mention. But, wouldn't Jesus words, if your right eye causes you to sin...be an indication that he wasn't ALWAYS soft sell? He did mention that to people who knew they were lost. I think the fact remains, does anyone know if Rob Bell does or does not believe in Hell? I haven’t made up my mind about him and that’s what I’d really like to know b/c I know what Jesus believed. That doesn’t mean it has to be the focus or first mention. But, wouldn’t Jesus words, if your right eye causes you to sin…be an indication that he wasn’t ALWAYS soft sell? He did mention that to people who knew they were lost.

]]> By: Tom http://mudpuppy.wordpress.com/2007/12/03/review-the-gods-arent-angry/#comment-16328 Tom Wed, 05 Dec 2007 03:03:34 +0000 http://mudpuppy.wordpress.com/2007/12/03/review-the-gods-arent-angry/#comment-16328 Welcome to the conversation Sam! You have nailed it! You must have an awesome pastor who has taught you well! Lost people know they are lost...they are definitely miserable...and, as brother Paul would say, they are slaves to sin. When they learn the truth about Jesus, the Good News, that truth, will set them FREE! What does a prisoner need? To emphasize their low position in prison? To make sure they know they are miserable? No, they need to know they can be FREE! No, the ones who needed to be reminded of where they came from, were those already in covenant relationship. Please note that Jesus' harsh statements we always to the religious elite. The ones who knew the law. Jesus never put salt in the wounds of the wounded....He always offered a salve. He gave hope to the hopeless, sight to the blind. In the ongoing work of discipleship....there is a time and a place for us to really understand where we came from...and what that really means. But, for those who are lost in darkness....the simple message is the light of love....Thank you Rob for being that light! Welcome to the conversation Sam! You have nailed it! You must have an awesome pastor who has taught you well!

Lost people know they are lost…they are definitely miserable…and, as brother Paul would say, they are slaves to sin. When they learn the truth about Jesus, the Good News, that truth, will set them FREE! What does a prisoner need? To emphasize their low position in prison? To make sure they know they are miserable? No, they need to know they can be FREE!

No, the ones who needed to be reminded of where they came from, were those already in covenant relationship. Please note that Jesus’ harsh statements we always to the religious elite. The ones who knew the law. Jesus never put salt in the wounds of the wounded….He always offered a salve. He gave hope to the hopeless, sight to the blind.

In the ongoing work of discipleship….there is a time and a place for us to really understand where we came from…and what that really means. But, for those who are lost in darkness….the simple message is the light of love….Thank you Rob for being that light!

]]> By: pomonapost http://mudpuppy.wordpress.com/2007/12/03/review-the-gods-arent-angry/#comment-16327 pomonapost Wed, 05 Dec 2007 02:02:05 +0000 http://mudpuppy.wordpress.com/2007/12/03/review-the-gods-arent-angry/#comment-16327 Thanks Sam. It is a good discussion. Thanks Sam. It is a good discussion.

]]> By: Nathanael http://mudpuppy.wordpress.com/2007/12/03/review-the-gods-arent-angry/#comment-16325 Nathanael Wed, 05 Dec 2007 01:19:28 +0000 http://mudpuppy.wordpress.com/2007/12/03/review-the-gods-arent-angry/#comment-16325 For what it's worth, here is my synopsis on the night I went and saw Rob: http://www.borrowedbreath.com/2007/11/27/the-gods-arent-angry/ For what it’s worth, here is my synopsis on the night I went and saw Rob:
http://www.borrowedbreath.com/2007/11/27/the-gods-arent-angry/

]]> By: Nathanael http://mudpuppy.wordpress.com/2007/12/03/review-the-gods-arent-angry/#comment-16324 Nathanael Wed, 05 Dec 2007 01:16:42 +0000 http://mudpuppy.wordpress.com/2007/12/03/review-the-gods-arent-angry/#comment-16324 Scott, Have you listened to Rob's messages? Not just this tour, but his podcasts? I hear in almost all of his teachings the resounding truth that we are NOT okay. That's why we need Jesus. His messages are some of the most refreshing and encouraging, while at the same time challenging, out there right now. He is passionate about us finding our peace with God through Jesus Christ and then contagiously passing it on. Do I sometimes wish he would be more black and white on certain issues? Yes. Has he ever preached anything that directly violates scripture? Not that I've heard. He does preach things that violate certain people's interpretation of the scriptures. But that's a good thing. My theology has shifted on certain issues over the years. Things I was adament about years ago are suddenly either not as important or I've changed my stance altogether as I've studied the Word asking the Holy Spirit to teach and guide and direct and correct and expose. Theology does not equal scripture. I think we all agree on that. And we all agree that Jesus is the only way to the Father. And so does our dear brother Rob Bell. I'm sticking to my guns...love wins. :) Scott,
Have you listened to Rob’s messages? Not just this tour, but his podcasts? I hear in almost all of his teachings the resounding truth that we are NOT okay. That’s why we need Jesus.

His messages are some of the most refreshing and encouraging, while at the same time challenging, out there right now. He is passionate about us finding our peace with God through Jesus Christ and then contagiously passing it on.

Do I sometimes wish he would be more black and white on certain issues? Yes.
Has he ever preached anything that directly violates scripture? Not that I’ve heard. He does preach things that violate certain people’s interpretation of the scriptures. But that’s a good thing. My theology has shifted on certain issues over the years. Things I was adament about years ago are suddenly either not as important or I’ve changed my stance altogether as I’ve studied the Word asking the Holy Spirit to teach and guide and direct and correct and expose.

Theology does not equal scripture. I think we all agree on that.
And we all agree that Jesus is the only way to the Father. And so does our dear brother Rob Bell.

I’m sticking to my guns…love wins.
:)

]]> By: Scott http://mudpuppy.wordpress.com/2007/12/03/review-the-gods-arent-angry/#comment-16323 Scott Wed, 05 Dec 2007 00:46:55 +0000 http://mudpuppy.wordpress.com/2007/12/03/review-the-gods-arent-angry/#comment-16323 Someone before wrote: It sure is good to KNOW that God has made a way for us to KNOW how He feels about us! Yes it is, but kowing how He feels about us is not the same thing as repentance and faith in His life and ours being one through faith in His atonement. I understand that there are some paralells to a feel good psychology here, but "I'm ok, your ok" is not the gospel and will leave the mind very much still set on the flesh and complacent concerning eternity. Someone before wrote:

It sure is good to KNOW that God has made a way for us to KNOW how He feels about us!

Yes it is, but kowing how He feels about us is not the same thing as repentance and faith in His life and ours being one through faith in His atonement.

I understand that there are some paralells to a feel good psychology here, but “I’m ok, your ok” is not the gospel and will leave the mind very much still set on the flesh and complacent concerning eternity.

]]> By: sam http://mudpuppy.wordpress.com/2007/12/03/review-the-gods-arent-angry/#comment-16321 sam Tue, 04 Dec 2007 23:58:54 +0000 http://mudpuppy.wordpress.com/2007/12/03/review-the-gods-arent-angry/#comment-16321 Please remember to whom this series is directed: the Lost. The lost already know how miserable they are, they need solutions, by learning about a Love that can save them. They will learn about the rest as they grow spiritually. Jesus didn't teach the doctrine of the Jewish faith, although he knew it well, he taught what people needed to hear to come to faith. and for the record, I like the Rob Bell bumper sticker: Love wins, because God is Love, and if Love wins, God Wins. End of story... Please remember to whom this series is directed: the Lost. The lost already know how miserable they are, they need solutions, by learning about a Love that can save them. They will learn about the rest as they grow spiritually.
Jesus didn’t teach the doctrine of the Jewish faith, although he knew it well, he taught what people needed to hear to come to faith.

and for the record, I like the Rob Bell bumper sticker: Love wins, because God is Love, and if Love wins, God Wins. End of story…

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